Barbarian Heroes II--Updated!

 More Barberian Heroes, since I wasn't nearly the first post, I decided to split it into two.

Arion

Arion, Lord of Atlantis began as a backup feature in Grell's Warlord, and soon graduated to his own magazine. According to the story Atlantis had reigned for a million years, during the Plesticene, and with the coming of the Ice Age, Neanderthal hordes were attacking Atlantis, and it took Arion's magic to repel them, and later a horde of as escaped dinosaurs (creatures from another time, sav the few that survived to populate the zoos of Atlantis). Arion, though he is a wizard rather than a warrior, manages to kill an escaped deinonychus with a sword. He was a bit similar to Roland Green's hero Wandor, according to one letter writer. Arion was drawn by Jan Dursema, who who did several issues of Warlord during the "Grell's wife" run.The  antagonist throughout the series was Arion's evil brother Garn Dunath, also a wizard. A demon lord had turned Arion's mother and Garn to evil  in their youth. Garn was albino, and bore a striking resemblence to Michael Moorcock's Elric. 

 Arak

This was a very innovative title from DC, largely the creation of Conan veteran Roy Thomas. Like Arion, it debuted in an issue of Warlord, though not so much a back-up feature as an insert, in which the hero, an American Indian in a birchbark canoe, saves a golden haired girl from some rogue Saxons, then slays a multi-headed dragon. Obviously, this North American warrior has been displaced!

The first actual issue (above) explained Arak's origin, and Roy Thomas's editorial, "What's an American Idnian doing in Medevial Europe Anyhow?"went into more detail about his creation. The story takes places years before Viking warriors landed on the coast of Newfoundland. Roy's idea was that perhaps a bit of traffic had gone the other way. A native American youth is found drifting in a canoe far out at sea, where is found and rescued by a wandering Viking vessel. He is raised by the Vikings, who name him Arak (a native American form of Eric). 

Arak winds up wandering across Dark Age Europe (and later the Near East and Asia), the way that Conan trod the kingdoms of Hyboria under his sandeled feet. In his editorial, Thomas explains that this is not quite our own earth, but an alternate history where magic really worked, and mythic creatures and beings were real! Another explanation raised later though, was that perhaps our own history was more magical then we have thought. In any event, Arak finds plenty of adventure across Eurasia, as comes under the service of Emperor Charlamane, befriends a Joan of Arc-like warrioress called Valda the Iron Maiden, and encounters all sorts of mythic creatures, including a living satyr and centaur still surviving in Greece from pre-Christian days. Eventually, he makes it back to his Quoantauka tribe on the North American continent. It's revealed that Arak is actually a demi-god, not unlike Hercules. His mother was bitten by posionous Serpent -God, but was rescued by He-No, God of Thunder, who fell in love with her, hence the subtitle of the series. In North America, in Arak's timeline at least, myth and magic are every bit as real as in Europe. 

The Warlord insert, and the first few issues of Arak were drawn by Ernie Colon. Later other artists took over, most notably Alfredo Alcala, one of the most talented of the Old Masters. 

Which leads us right to...

Voltar

Voltar was a creation of Alfedo Alcala, who was one of greatest artist's to work on Conan. Since Alcala was native to the Phillipines where he published this title, I didn't grow up with it, and only found out about it as an adult. But I did manage to buy Alfredo's Voltar portfolio, and find a few of Voltar's adventures in issues of Rook. Voltar's world appears to be very akin to that of Arak, essentially a more fantastic version of our own history. On Voltar's earth, the Roman Empire is under siege by hordes of invading goblins. Other creatures of myth also abound, such as satyrs, centaurs, and dragons. 

Elric

Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone is comlex, brooding monarch, born with albinism. He has a black rune-sword named Stormbringer that feeds on blood. Elric has a appeared a number of times in comics over te decades, including a current series, once teaming with Conan during the Barry Windso-Smith days. 

Imaro

Imaro was a African (Nyumbanian)warrior created by author Charles R. Saunders. I first encountered him in his first true novel printed in 1982. This novel told Imaro's boyhood among the Illyassai, his world's version of our own Masai warriors, who also raise and herd cattle and use lion-killing as a rite of passage into manhood. Imaro's mother is from another tribe, and the way he is treated by both the adults and peers among his tribe is truly horrendous. The book at the time made me think of how terribly spoiled and comfortable my own life was, even while being bullied at school every day. Anyway, during on Imaro's own lion-hunt, a local wizard/shaman casts a spell that makes the other warriors think that Imaro has run from the lion he really killed, thus banishing him as an Illmanok, or "un-man." Imaro finally does get revenge against his main bully, and kills the sorceror who also brings a horde in inhuman beuings (the builders of the "place of stones") to undead life and murder Imaro's love interest. The elders of his tribe realize the truth, and apologize to Imaro. Imaro refuese to accept it and takes up life as a wanderer across the face of Nyumbani, the alternate Africa of his world. 

He encounters many other dangers during his travels, incudling a hippo-headed demon called ishikukumadivu (I still remember that name!) pictured above, and the Azuth, a monster created by Atlantean sorcerers who sought to enslave all of Nyumbani. 

The picture on the first volume of the Imaro series, K W. Kelly, did an excellent job on the demon, but did not get Imaro himself right. The following book shows Imaro as the book describes him, flanked by his mate Tanisha, whom he saved from the Atlanteans, and Pomphous, a pygmy warrior who was educated as a scholar in the land of Kush. The third book Trail of Bohu, begins with the near-certainty that both Tanisha, who Imaro had rescued from numerous dangers, and his young son Kilowo, have been slaughtered by an evil sorcerer named Bohu, and the rest of the novel has Imaro seeking his revenge pursuing the wizard. He crosses Nyumbani's great inland sea, battling an attack by amphibious beings called Hibi, and at last locates his mother's tribe where he is last able to rconcile with her. Unfortuantely, Daw somehow couldn't publish the rest of the series. But eventually Saunders found a way to get them into print. 

In the final two volumes, Imaro faces more terrors as he hones in on his foe. I'll just say here (spoiler wanring if you don't want to know the end)---Bohu never killed Imaro's family, merely kidnapped them. He tells Imaro as much, but Imaro refuses to believe. In the end Tanisha and Kilawo are revealed to be alive, but Tanisha beomes angry and leaver Imaro. What a way to end a series!

Nyumbani is an incredibly rich world, filled with odd cultures, sorcerers, and strange monsters, some of them drawn from African myth, such as lion-demons called irimu, and some beasts that are left-over from prehistorric times. These latter include surviving arsinotheriums called gunkwu, huge mammals with two horns side by side, that are used as war-beasts. There are bidpedal reptiles that appear to be surviving dinosaurs, and one especially voracious lizard-like beast (I forget its name) that nearly kills Imaro during a battle. Then there is what is called a "red panther" or kisanjini, as Pomphous calls it, a feline like a leopard, but with a erythistic or red-colored coat. This beast, though smaller and leaner than a conventional saber-tooth cat, possesses dagger-like fangs that extend below its tufted chin. 

Gath of Baal

Gath of Baal was a character created by Frank Frazetta and author James Silke, based on the former's Deathdealer paintings. Gath's world was similar to Howard's Hyborian Age, in that Europe and North Africa were joined togather. In this "age before Atlantis" the Medeteranian sea is a vast, forested valley filled with human tribes. Gath is a warrior-hermit who dwells deep in the forest, and the one chosen to wear the Horned Helmet, which turns him into a killing machine, in order to repel the invading, Mongol-like Kitzakks. The love interest is Robin Lakehair, an innocent young maid with the power to remove the horned helmet from Gath. 

Inciidently, Robin of Lakehair is not described by Silke to sound much like a "Frazetta babe". In the second volume, he even has someone state that Lakehair's lack of curves and voluptuousness would provoke laughter. Really? That's very opposite of Cobra, the villainous sorcerous the books. 

The Gath novles went on for four books, introducing other characters and foes. By then, the barbbarian boom was over, and that fact was blamed on the series demise. 

Gath wasn't the only interpretation of Frazetta's character, though. There was a comic book series by Simon Beisley and Liam Sharpe, and later Arthur Suydum, that Frazetta didn't seem much to care for. It was also about a warrior and cursed helmet, but this warrior was clearly not Gath of Baal. 

Later, another comic series appeared, by a publisher that also did other books based on Frazetta's paintings. In this, the Deathdealer was not a human, but an entity summoned forth from the "Grandmother Oak," during times of great battle. The Deathdealer would appear on the battlefield and between armies slay members of both sides indesciminately. 

Frazetta was asked to do a picture of the Deathdealer without his helmet, however, during the James Silke run of books. Since this was lcearly meant ot tie in with the series, the warrior depicted is clearly Gath of Baal. 

Kane

Karl Edward Wagner's Kane is a barbarian with a difference. He's more of an anti-hero, and some might even declare him to be a villain. He's the hero, or at least the protagonnist, of most of his stories, but other times even serves as an antagonist of sorts, though the protagonist does not win. He's mostly known as an anti-hero, and that's accurate enough. 

I'd actually read very little of Kane for years, even thogh had copies of Wagner's Bloodstone, Dark Crusade, and one omnibus volume of Kane stories. I remember picking up Bloodstone at the Griffin Bookstore as a kid, and I was taken in by Wagner's vivid descriptions, and of course, the awesome Frazetta cover. Finally, after all these years, I took the summer of Covid to read every Kane book in my possession. That means I've read every Kane novel save one. 

It's difficult to say what world or age Kane hails fiom, but apparently, as Kane is an ageless warrior who continues to live on into modern times. So Kane's world must be something akin the the Hyborian age--a time before recorded history where magic and monsters proliferate. Kane himself somewhat resembles a Vanir. Kane has never been adapted in comics form as far as I can tell. 

The stories were engrossing. Among the finest are one where Kane encounters a female vampire in ruins of a vast desert. Or the one in which he makes friends with a survivor of a race of giants, and they discover an underground world, where they encounter a mammoth, albino saber-tooth while attempting to rob a treasure. It's the giant who actually battles ad slays the giant feline. My favorite is most likely the one in which Kane finds himself the guest of a rich nobleman, who invites him on a hunt, and the party is attacked by wolves. Kane slays several, but they are believed to be controlled by something. In this story, one of the noble's daughters refers to Kane as "gentle" which surprises him. And it makes me think, IS there a gently side to Kane? It is soon discovered that a werewolf is among them, and others in the castle keep disappearing. The werewolf is indeed controlling the pack, and  is shown to be white furred and scarlet-eyed. Suspicion soon centers around Kane, the obvious outsider. What struck me here is that although Wagner seems to be trying to conceal the identitiy of the werewolf, it's really easy to identify who the culprit is, since there is only one man in the castle who shares the werewolf's hair and eye color!

In one of the short stories, Kane also teams with Mookcock's Elric to defeat a menace from beyond the stars. 

Kane himself is an enigma. He is out only for himself, but if so long as he's teated well, he is kind to them in return. On the other hand, Kane is utterly ruthless in battle. In Bloodstone, Kane recovers an green gemstone from a crashed alien spaceship in the heart of a vast swamp infested with humanoid batrachians, much AD&D's race of bullywugs. The red-veined bloodstone allows him to command the batrachians as his army, and he uses them to invade and plunder numerous cities. When this happens, the monsters slaughter everyone, including women and children. To be fair, the amphibian horde isn't following Kane's orders in this. But they aren't disobeying him either. Kane takes whatever he wants, uses who he has too, and just doesn't care what his minions do so long as they continue to serve him. 

Another story features Kane and a girl hiding out from a vigilante and his men who are seeking to bring the brigand to justice. Here is where things really start to get morally ambiguous. The vigilante leader has a very strong sense of moral justice, and grew up listening to tales of heroism, and seems to sincerely want to right wrongs, his whole purpose of pursuing Kane. It soon becomes obvious, though, that though he may have started out a genuinely good man, he has become corrupted over the years. When he tells the people in a bar of Kane's atrocities, they just tell him Kane is none of their business, and they don't want to be involved. He then takes the attitude that they are part of the problem, and soon begins to cross moral lines. A young idealist who joined the band out of his own sense of justice, questions the leaders decision to allow his men to rape a woman who was uncoroperative. The leader's reply is basically that the ends justify the means, so long as one has the overall best interests in mind. Finally, the vigilante proves himself willing to burn the entire village in order to capture Kane. Kane does manage to outwit his pursuers, and defeat the vigilante, but the worldview of the young idealist is shattered beyond repair. Has actual good triumphed, then? Or not? The vigilante leader reminded me a good deal of the Antifa fanatics we have today. They certainly hold high ideals of justice, but are willing to cross moral and ethical borders to achieve their goals, much like the vigilante of the Kane tale. Still, Kane is no angel. Reading through these stories, one begins to wonder if actual moral Good and Evil even exist in Kane's universe. And if not, what does that imply about our world? Virutally anyone who behaves badly considers themselves justified, or even morally righteous. Kane, at least, never denies that he is only out for himself. What is Wagner trying to say here?

    Kane is a series that provides no easy answers. 

Red Morden

Red Morden is a character based on Frank Frazetta's painting of the same name. The painting actually depicts Karl Wagner's Kane, for his novel, Dark Crusade, about Kane's involvement in a murderous cult. However, the writers for the "Frazettaverse" comics series, decided to give new interpretations to Frazetta's paintings. Frazetta himself may have been somewhat leniant on his interpretations, wanting readers to appreciate them as works of art first, rather than scenes from the respective novels on which they are based. 

Other fans, though, took different postion. For the cover above, notice that they used the same Fraz cover to Pirates of Venus, but with one difference of changes to color of the protagonist's from blond to red. Carson of Venus is blond; Morden is a redhead. According to one comentator, the pilot of the boat IS Carson of Venus, and objected at the tampering of Frazetta's artwork. That sea is also on  Brroughs' Venus, and that is a "small" rotic breaching out of the waves (adult rotiks grow to the size of ocean liners). Before the comic was released, the creators took these objections seriously, and Carson's hair was changed back to blonde. 

As for Morden, he is Vanir-like warrior from Viking like culture, on the same world as their version of the Deathdealer. In the first issue, he slays a female dragon and her brood, in a story very similar to that of the 80s flick Dragonslayer. The second ish had him crossing the Northern ocean, where he had to contend with a seamonster that had more human-like arms than a Venusian rotik. If memory serves, this was the isuee that had most of the story written novel-fashion with white print on black background, accompanied by a full-page illustration. 

Finally, or hero reached the land at the end of the world, where there was a showdown between him and the Deathdealer (not Gath of Baal), and though I don't recall who the winner might have been, I think it was a draw. 

Kong

Kong the Untamed was one other Barbarian mag DC tried in the seventies. Like Kubert's Tor it was set in the prehistoric age and featured a Cro-Magnon hero. But unlike that, Kong (or at least for the first few issues) was set in the actual Plesticene era, and contained cavemen and cave beasts, no dinosaurs. it focussed on the conflict between the Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal races. Kong is a yellow-haired Cro-Magnon boy, an outscast by the chief of his tribe, whose people war with the brutish "beast-men." In the premeire issue, Kong gets captured by Gurat, and Neanderthal warrior whose tribe had been decimated. Seeing Kong as the enemy, he ties up the boy, intending on killing him later. Kong escapes Gurat, only to learn that his mother has been murdered by his own Cro-Magnon people. 

Later both Kong and his former captor are captured by a common foe, they escape, and through a series of perils, become friends [one slight correction--Gurat first saves Kong from Neanderthal Bear cult who tries to sacrice him to a cave bear. Such cults did exist]. During the third of fourth issue, Kong and Gurat stumble upon a lost world, a portion of the Plesticene where dinosaurs still roam. They escape an allosaurus, and manage to kill a pteranodon, whose Gurat opins is "worse than a march rats" Kong and Gurat are soon separated with Kong captured by a tribe of Amazon women. He makes friends with a male warrior named Roland, and the two battled and kill a carnivourus stagosaurus. It always annoyed me when they get the bsic facts about dinosaurs wrong, especially when they made herbivorous dinosaurs into carnivores, unless they had some kind of explanation for it, like the gryfs of Burroughs' Pal-ul-don.

Meanwhile, Gurat is captured by a tribe of warriors who ride pteranodons, who ultimately prove to be allies. Kong's friend Roland gets burned at the stake by the high preistess for speaking out against women. The the pterandon-riders attack the Amazon village, and Kong is rescued by Gurat. 

And that wraps up the short-lived series, save that I just very recently discovered that they did plan at least one final issue. Alter Ego showed the title page for the next, in which Kong's and Gurat's pteranodon gets struck by lightening. What eventually happened is anyone's guess. 

When the series was authentic, it featured dire wolves, mammoths, a cave bear, and a smilodon. Alfredo Alcala did the work on the first four or five issues of Kong. 

Anywaym I recall at the time someone writing in and congratuating the creators for not having dinosaurs in Kong and making it authentic. They replied that once he saw dinosaurs encroaching onto Kong's territory, that he should keep in mind that cavemen comics minus dinosaurs tend to sell poorly. That's very easily countered of course. One, the dinos didn't save the mag. And two, I knew even at the time that dinosaur comics did not tend to sell well at all! In fact, all of the caveman and most of the barbarian comics other than Conan himself tended to far poorly. 

It's a sad, sad world we live in!

P. S In regard to the writing on Kong, one thing I just discovered on another was the Gerry Conway apparently did the script for final issues, and that makes since, since it is rather bleak, with Kong's friend getting burned at the stake. Gerry's writing was also bleak on his Ka-Zar stories. 

Skull the Slayer

Skull the Slayer was very innovative take on the Barbarian genre back in the mid-seventies. The hero was Jim Skully a Vietnam war vet, who was severely mistreated on his return home. When his brother attacks him in a drunken rage, Skully kills him in self defense, but flees when he's suspected of murder. A plane flies the capotured Skully and three other passages, young teen boy and girl, and an African American doctor who believes Skully is just a killer because of his training, and distrusts him throughout the series. The plane flies through the Bermuda Triangle and which it turns out is a dimensional vortex that sends them back through time to the Mesozoic era. Or does it? It turns out that there are also cave people and later, meso-Americans inhabiting the land. Skull kills a tyrannosaurus in the first issue, after he brought down an eophippus (also out of time-place.)The doctor suggests that "they can start all over," and avoid the mistakes that humanity has made. The girl, Anne, points out that there was never any record of humans at this time periods, which means they didn't accomplish anything. But the boy discovers evidence of humans. There follows in the second issue, a capture by Neanderthals, a styracosaurus stampede, and Skull's battle with an elasmosaurus, which is misidentified by the narrator and the doctor as a brontosaurus (something pointed out by a reader in the letters column later on). I don't recall where Jim got the belt through the rest of the series (it may have been from a "god" the cavemen worshipped, and there was a link to the aliens. Anyway, it greatly increases his strength, making him able to battle and kill dinosaurs, just as the author intended! He once toyed with the idea of the title being Skull, Slayer of Dinosaurs, but that didn't happen. 

The next issue had the band discover a "time tower" constructed by aliens, where Skull battles another T-rex, this time a robotic one, before they wind up in a pseudo-ancient Egypt, where the soldiers are all robots, and the pharaoh is one of the aliens who created both the time tower and Bermuda vortex, as he explains to the band before murdering Jeff as an example. That's right, the new writer that was assigned at that time killed off the rest of the characters save Skull himself! He also tried a different format, one that cut out the dinosaurs that were supposed to be a major element from the series. Anne dies during an escape from the Egyptians, and the doctor perishes defending her. Skull then reaches a different level of the tower where he meets "the Black Knight" and Merlin, both actually robots. The next issue has Skull and the Knight battling an army of demons. The original format may have been abandoned, but a new writer was brought in and all three of Skull's deceased companions get their lives back, and return and they to the prehistoric world! The three then become lost in a vast swamp, where they recover the medical kit from the wreckage of their plane. Then they get captured by a war party of ancient Meso-Americans and taken across an ancient sea, where Skull fights and slays a huge ichthyosaurus. Then they are taken to what Skull believes are the lost cities of Cibola, a ruse used by the Indians to get rid of Cortez. The temples are of the same style as the those of the ancient Mayans and Aztecs, only molded out of pure gold! The city's ruler, however, is a white American man who also became lost in Bermuda, and wound up worshipped as a god. The next issues has skull and company battling a stegosaurus and then two chained pteranodons in the beast-pits below the city. In the final issue a high priest of the Jaguar plot to take over the city with his allies, an aerial fleet of pteranodon-riders. And just when Skull and his friends get captured by the evil priest, we're informed it's the very last issue of the series. It ends on the note that Skull have have begun to get a larger reader following just before it ended and after the decision to cancel the series had already been made. So they asked for letters, saying "If you will it, the Slayer will back!" Unfortunately, there evidently wasn't enough fan response, and series did not return. However, the cliffhanger ending did get wrapped in an issue of Marvel Two-In-One, that had the Thing teaming up with other heroes throughout the Marvel universe. Ben Grimm gets his plane captured by a giant pterodactyl, and taken through the vortex.  He and Skull manage to defeat the priest, and return to present. The villain follows them with his army of trained pteranodons, but the good guys win, and Ben suggests that the pterosaurs would do well in the Savage land, informing  Reed Richards that "he'll contact Ka-Zar." The doctor calls a truce, of sorts, with Skully, and the young people drive off, their prehistoric adventure finally ended. 

Marv Wolfman was the creator of the series, who also colored it! The first two issues were drawn excellently by Steve Gann, who also worked on Savage Tales, Ka-Zar's black and white magazine (Gann might be considered the Rembrant of Ka-Zar comics, were it not for Brent Anderson). The above images really give a small sample of Gan''s talent as an artist, especially when it came to dinosaurs and pretty girls!

 It is truly a shame that Skull's series was cut short, and never reached the high hopes its creator intended for it. I do believe that the wrap-up in Marvel Two-In-One was written by Wolf, but still, one wonders what would have happened had the series been allowed to continue on its own. How would they defeat the priest then, and what further perils and marvels would the heroes encounter. Sadly, we'll never know. 

Naza: Stone Age Warrior

Another stone age comic I know little about. Naza: Stone Age Warrior was a comic that was published by Dell, probabably in the fifties or sixites, which I never knew of until I discovered it at an old comics seller, but I don't think I actually have any issues. I will likely buy some, though the art wasn't that great from what I've seen so far. It was about Cro-Magnon warrior in a world that I don't think featured dinosaurs, at least not regularly. Then again, I seem to recall seeing a Jack Sparling drawing from this featuring a theropod,so possibly there were a few survivors in Naza's world.  There is, of course, the huge, titanoboa-like giant snake on the cover of this issue. 

Kona: Monarch of Monster Isle

I don't know that much about Kona either, though I do own a few issues, and plan to get more. He was a Tarzan/Ka-Zar type hero protecting a band of adventurers on a lost island inhabited, not only by dinosaurs, but giant mutant forms of present day animals, including frogs, cats, birds and insects!

Prince Valiant

Prince Valiant was comic-strip hero created by Hal Foster back in the forties. Foster also famously had a run on Tarzan. Valiant was a warrior prince of (mythical) King Arthur era. I've only read a little of it, but the series seems to have some of the flavor of Robert E, Howard's Solomon Kane, in that the prince occasionally visits exotic regions like Africa, and often tangles with fantastic menaces like surviving plesiosaurs, giant lizards and serpents, and hordes of bat-winged humanoids. Prince Valiant has endured over the years, and is still found in as a regular newspaper strip. He's currently drawn by comics Great Thomas Yeates. Sadly I currently don't have access to these strips. But how cool is this art:

Thun'da

Thun'da was a genuine Frank Frazetta comic strip, from back back in the days when he still did them. It's a basically lost world tale set in Africa. Roger Drumm is flying his cargo plane over an unexplored Congo region, when he crashes into a lost realm. First his plane gets shaken by a huge brontosaurus, then he's attacked by a pteranodon which he manages to kill with bullet. He's then captured by a tribe of Neanderthals. Later, he escapes rescuing Pha,  a native princess who remains with him through the series.. The first story ends with him slaying a monstrous serpent worshipped by the sub-men. 

The second issue has Drum, know known as Thun'da and his primitive sweetheart battling an invasion of australopithicines  riding wooly mammoths. The third tale has Thund'as slay an attacking saber-tooth, whom he learns was a female defending her cub. He raises the orphaned smilodon, whom he names sabre, to adulthood, and great cat accompanies him and his mate on further adventures. Unfortunately, though, a new writer made the decision to return Thund'a to mainstream Africa (though Sabre and the girl remained in tow). Frazetta left shortly after that (can't say that blame him). The Thun'da strips have been reprinted many times since. A short Thund'a comic series was revived in the early 2000s, with a different artist, and the same basic stories. More dinosaurs turned up this time, Drumm saves the cub Sabre from a pair of deinonychus this time. There are still the mammoth-riding ape-men, and a huge pteranodon, and a giant serpent do appear at the end, though this time (I think), he ends up riding the snake, rather than slaying it!